WebMetricsGuru: it’s an easy web metrics thing you can do and you can see where your traffic is coming from if you add a tag whenever your speaking to different people about your work - that way you can go back later and look at visitor interest
Kernkamp: hello everybody
WebMetricsGuru: of the people you spoke to
WebMetricsGuru: Hi everyone again!
WebMetricsGuru: the details for the posts and interviews I did are on my blog and you can go later - or now and look though - I think they are all tagged with SESNY2006 or something like that.
WebMetricsGuru: www.webmetricsguru.com?wrc
WebMetricsGuru: I’m just going to talk to what impressed me the most about this show as I’m not feeling that well today - and my energy is lower than usual
WebMetricsGuru: the biggest things I saw that impressed me fell into a couple of basic categories
WebMetricsGuru: 1- metrics - there’s a need to roll up multiple views of data that are coming from different sources into one view that gives marketers and understand of segments of the audience coming to their sites and how to best sell to them
WebMetricsGuru: The session I attended on MultiChannel Metrics with Eric Peterson, who was late, btw, addressed an issue that’s becoming more and more prelevent (forgive my misspellings, there will be many of these).
WebMetricsGuru: there’s TOO MUCH DATA being collected - data in CRM, Data in Web Analytics, Data somewhere else (maybe questionnaires) and it’s overwhelming
WebMetricsGuru: lot of this data does not match up
AcmeSEO: Like Google’s Data?
WebMetricsGuru: the answer is - you need to see just the data that’s important
AcmeSEO: sorry I couldn’t restrain myself
WebMetricsGuru: yes, that would be one source, but more the web analytics and CRM data that I’m thinking of…but yes, rolling that all together.
WebMetricsGuru: to make a "story" or "scenario" for a segment of your audience.
WebMetricsGuru: Some examples where given and, in fact, I’m going to give everyone access to download the presentations at SESNY06
AcmeSEO: Kule!
WebMetricsGuru: Contact me at now.seo@gmail.com and I can send you some of the presentations from SESNY06 if you need them.

WebMetricsGuru: All the presentations for MultiChannel Metrics are now placed in the presentation page, where there only was one last time I looked
WebMetricsGuru: Jason Burby, ZAAZ Neil Mason, Applied Insights Eric T. Peterson, Visual Sciences, LLC
WebMetricsGuru: click on each of those and you can download the one’s for Jason, Neil and Eric.
WebMetricsGuru: you can do that later though - I’ll just talk to it now
WebMetricsGuru: The deal is you if you want to roll up all your data - it’s a custom programming job - no software will roll up all your data out of the box
WebMetricsGuru: that was the point I got out this - the other
WebMetricsGuru: that it was important to understand who is actually coming to your sites and why
WebMetricsGuru: In Neil’s presentation, he was able to create the concept of a "Journey" which is beyond what is called a Scenario.
WebMetricsGuru: The e-ci - holistic approach was talked about
WebMetricsGuru: including rolling up Market Intelligence, Site Centric Activity, Site Performance and User Profiling
WebMetricsGuru: to call in Web Effectiveness
WebMetricsGuru: somehow, we have to get to the units of "audience segment", what the intension of that "segment is" and "categories" on your website
WebMetricsGuru: so, the Customer Journey Profile was born out of merging who visits the site, what they do, why they visit and how are they interacting with the site
WebMetricsGuru: so in order to do this - you have to plan well - plan well in advance - it’s difficult to back end into this kind of thing
WebMetricsGuru: In this case, data mining was also done - again, custom programming, not something that you get out of the box of any tool
WebMetricsGuru: the value of this is near the end the deck
WebMetricsGuru: They were able to construct a Journey Profile that had 3 basic Journeys
WebMetricsGuru: now, the client who had the site that was the case study for this - thought they were selling to affluent woman - and that’s true.
WebMetricsGuru: but they were also selling to Men who were buying presents for their wives and girlfriends- often quickly…this they did not know
WebMetricsGuru: the conversion ratio for Men: which were "destination purchase" defined (near the end of Neil’s deck) was 155, impressive.
WebMetricsGuru: those for Journey 3, the woman, were 193, and Woman was more interested in shopping.
WebMetricsGuru: there was along another Female segment that had as the basic theme of the Journey…"Inspire Me".
WebMetricsGuru: They were going if Journey #2 even though the conversion rate was much lower than Journey 1 and Journey 3.
WebMetricsGuru: And THAT’s WHAT THEY NEEDED TO KNOW
WebMetricsGuru: That’s actionable data
WebMetricsGuru: But look at what they had to do to get that level of knowledge.
WebMetricsGuru: So, a lot of smaller sites can’t really do this because it’s too data intensive, and you might know your audience well enough that you can just follow your gut….but when your site gets to a certain size - when your business gets larger - it becomes more important to know what’s important - what do you need to know
WebMetricsGuru: and most analytics, even the dashboards - are not doing the job….
WebMetricsGuru: in a lot of cases, the more you define what you need, and what your specifications are in detail beforehand, the better off you are in finding a solution to how to get this data rolled up and how to find the right packages and vendors- if you decide to go that route.
WebMetricsGuru: The other presentations in that session were similar - again - multiple data sets that need to be merged
WebMetricsGuru: the hardest part is not collecting the data - it’s interpreting what it means
WebMetricsGuru: the answers being - how much brand loyalty am I getting, how much customer satisfaction is my site generating, how are my campaigns performing, how are my competitors doing compared to my site, what is my typical customer profile and how much is my site generating and how can I improve that?
WebMetricsGuru: and I’d encourage you all to also read my blog www.webmetricsguru.com?wrc and look for my take on that information
WebMetricsGuru: I also listened to Barry Diller’s Keynote speech
WebMetricsGuru: Barry change AskJeeves.com to Ask.com last week - they are rebranding and increasing their services
WebMetricsGuru: Ask came up with the motto "Be Evil"
WebMetricsGuru: as opposed to Google’s "Don’t be Evil".
WebMetricsGuru: I think Barry was just having fun.
WebMetricsGuru: You have to look at it like this … Google "branded" search and now when we thing Search - most often - we think "Google"
WebMetricsGuru: so, to stand out… you have to be different and that’s what Ask.com is trying to do.
mariposa: I found it interesting that Barry didn’t
mention that Ask had shut down Teoma…
WebMetricsGuru: They know they can’t overtake Google.
WebMetricsGuru: Interesting point - it was not mentioned and I was kind of thinking about it in the back of my mind but it was not addressed
WebMetricsGuru: the backend technologies were merged
mariposa: yep
WebMetricsGuru: they had the same backend for a while - it was probably a marketing decision
WebMetricsGuru: having search engine A, B, C, get’s confusing and it’s more overhead.
WebMetricsGuru: Barry stroke me a more of Business Marketing type that goes by his Gut
WebMetricsGuru: and he’s had a lot of success with that.
WebMetricsGuru: it works for him. and his Gut told him to go and buy AskJeevees - but he did a business analysis first to see if they could compete
WebMetricsGuru: and the answers he got said - yes, and make a profit - down the line
WebMetricsGuru: it may be "way down the line" for all I know - but he says he is in it for the long haul
WebMetricsGuru: so we’ll just have to see.
WebMetricsGuru: I found the Lunch with the Google Engineers too packed so I did not spend a lot of time there.
WebMetricsGuru: Targeting Search Ads By Demographics & Behavior was PACKED
mariposa: I read recently that AdWords will allow demographic targeting soon
WebMetricsGuru: it was so PACKED that if you came in after the session began there was no seating and the hall sat a couple of thousand people.
WebMetricsGuru: Yes, I wrote about it on my Blog and took a look at it over the last 24 hours - it’s somewhat different than the MSN Ad Center product
WebMetricsGuru: The big thing that came out of that session is everyone wants this information NOW.
WebMetricsGuru: but the Search Engines are not yet providing it in a very useable form.
mariposa: will they be charging extra for it as MSN does?
WebMetricsGuru: However, I was able to give MSN my carts based on my Tattoo study which will be the subject of another chat, I suppose.
WebMetricsGuru: where I took MSN’s data and did much more with it than they can right now.
WebMetricsGuru: Mariposa, the cost for the AdWords targeting is free.
WebMetricsGuru: but it’s not the same product at all.
WebMetricsGuru: Let me point out what AdWords provides since it may be of interest to all of you
WebMetricsGuru: AdWords is asking you to choose which audiences you want to advertise to and then giving you a list of sites that would appeal to those audiences from their AdSense publishers.
WebMetricsGuru: That’s all they are doing.
WebMetricsGuru: right now
mariposa: ah
WebMetricsGuru: To the extent that you know your audience (age, sex, income) or you know the right key phrases, you can select from a list of 50 or 60 sites they will show you once you fill out the form online in you AdWords account for Site Targeting.
WebMetricsGuru: This is only for Site Targeting - that’s it.
WebMetricsGuru: they are telling you where you should, as an AdWords advertiser, run your ads if you want to reach the target audience….that is all.
WebMetricsGuru: and, they are giving you some information on page views and impressions so you can decide which of these might generate more traffic (and cost you more)
WebMetricsGuru: I think it’s a useful product - it may even look at your site as it’s defined in your own AdWords account in making these recommendations - I’m not sure - but I suspect as much.
WebMetricsGuru: MSN’s product is much different -though MSN has something similar to what AdWords Demographic profiling has - it’s called the MSN Profiler and you can get to it off the main page of MSN Advertising.
WebMetricsGuru: Essentially, MSN has done the same thing - allowing you to pick your audiences by age, sex and income and some online behavior - then show you the MSN properties you can run ads on
WebMetricsGuru: MSN Ad Center - on the other hand - allows you to research your audience based on keyword and location, and breaks down the information in a more granular way - it’s as much a research tool as it is a platform for PPC- while AdWords new Demographics is just a quick ad on to AdWords at this point.
WebMetricsGuru: I’m not taking anything away from Google - they were very quick to add this in to the product - but it’s not that useful unless you know who you want to reach in the first place.
WebMetricsGuru: But now the race is on, and all the search engines will have to provide Demographic and Geo-Demographic targeting - they have no choice.
WebMetricsGuru: the problem is delivering useful data. I made MSN’s data useful - but I had to do it - the product did not do it for me. For example, I could tell that selling Tattoos to people over 50 is a very hard thing to do because there’s no search demand - people over 50 aren’t searching for Tattoos online
WebMetricsGuru: Females 18-25 are the hottest audience
WebMetricsGuru: so if your a Tattoo online design company, like my client www.bullseyetattoos.com you need to figure out…am I reaching the target audience?
WebMetricsGuru: Turns out that www.tattoojohnny.com was reaching out more to the young females - it was partly in the site design and partly their affiliate program
WebMetricsGuru: MSN does not tell you this - I had to take MSN’s data make that intelligence out of it.
WebMetricsGuru: also, MSN’s product, today, does not have a way to export to Excel or to keep more than 1 month of data (previous month, current month).
WebMetricsGuru: that limits any trending you can do…so all the search engines need to work on this and it’s probably going to take the better part of a year to get this down right.
WebMetricsGuru: but I’m sure you’ll see the next wave from all t three major search engines will be demographic targeting by age, sex, location and income and, in MSN’s case, Lifestyle.
martin: ?
martin: ?
martin: sorry, I didn’t mean to whisper to you
WebMetricsGuru: There again, they presented the MOSAIC cluster demographic system - but none of the people at MSN knew anything about it - so the workers in MSN’s booth at SESNY did not know or understand what that data was or how to use it.
WebMetricsGuru: The MOSAIC system has about 12 cluster groups (a small number actually, many other systems have closer to 70 cluster groups) and though analysis they can break down lifestyle
WebMetricsGuru: In fact, via my analysis and charts which I gave to MSN, I was able to show the audience for "Tattoo" related keywords was strongest for the Cluster Segment called "Metropolitan Strugglers"
WebMetricsGuru: and these people tend to have transient jobs, lower wages, live in crime infested neighborhoods - sounded like an episode of Miami Ink.
WebMetricsGuru: but then, if you looked at the audience for "Celtic Tattoos" it was "Sophisticated Boujious" sorry for the misspelling.
WebMetricsGuru: meaning that the niche market for Celtic Tattoos was different - appealing to rich females and males - much different. So, MSN product does supply that level of data - if you know how to pull it out - but you have to put the meaning to it yourself.
WebMetricsGuru: The AdWords product gives you nothing like this - it’s like apples and oranges.
martin: ?
mariposa: that’
s the key to all metrics…getting meaning from the data
WebMetricsGuru: Let me quickly go to a couple of other sessions as it’s 1PM already.
martin: ?
WebMetricsGuru: Podcast Search - download that presentation by Amanda Watlington, Ph.D., APR,
WebMetricsGuru: it’s great, and if any of you are into Podcasts or Vidcasts or just RSS feeds, realize that you must optimize your feeds the same way you optimize your pages for Metadata and Search Relevance.
WebMetricsGuru: That’s not been well understood.
WebMetricsGuru: Very Important.
AcmeSEO: I went to Amanda’s Podcast presentation at PubCon in Vegas and it was terrific!
WebMetricsGuru: Yep, I was not at the last Webmasterworld but I am going to

Boston - probably as Press for my Blog company, Know More Media.
WebMetricsGuru: Everyone, download that presentation and look at the thing you need to start doing with Podcast metadata - tags, stuff like that.
AcmeSEO: I may see yu there
AcmeSEO: I just got a 30% discount coupon yesterday
WebMetricsGuru: a couple of other things and then will finish.
WebMetricsGuru: Cool about the discount - we’ll meet up there I’m sure.
AcmeSEO: It came from SMA-NA
WebMetricsGuru: there was also two more metrics sessions I covered in my blog
AcmeSEO: I gotta go, thanks for the great chat

Marshall .
WebMetricsGuru: ok, everyone - maybe we’ll end here.
AcmeSEO: Can we continue it…?
mariposa: thanks

Marshall …we’ll all be pouring over your blog
WebMetricsGuru: remember to come to my blog